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First Cap Rush Rule (Poll & Discussion)

Discussion in 'Squad - Server Information & Feedback' started by Steez, Jan 3, 2017.

?

What should the rule be?

  1. Don't allow any flags that are directly linked to main to be rushed.

    18.4%
  2. Allow one to be rushed, but not both.

    6.1%
  3. Get rid of the rule all together and just prepare for whatever comes.

    49.0%
  4. Leave it in play and remove it on the Community Whitelist Server.

    26.5%
  1. Steez

    Steez Guest

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    This has been a hot topic for a while now, and while we as admins have discussed it a lot, I think it is only fair to involve the community in this process.

    So answer the poll, discuss away in this thread and we will collate the data and finalize the rule at the next squad admin meeting.

    Realistically, there are 3 options that I'm aware of:

    1. Don't allow any flags that are directly linked to main to be rushed, as these are considered first flags
    2. allow one to be rushed, but not both.
    3. Get rid of the rule all together and just prepare for whatever comes.
    If you have another idea then by all means put it forward, as well as please justify your decision and list the merits of the rule.

    Keep it civilized guys :)
     
  2. StupidSexyFlanders

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    I'm loving that option 3 - 'Get rid of the rule all together' is winning by far. This rule has always been retarded. BigD is the only server I know of in all of Squad that has this rule.
     
  3. Kmak

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    There is no rules in war lol..
     
  4. Christoph

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    My vote goes for number three, since I feel the rule limits the range of experience you can get out of a squad map. Removing it will help to stop things getting too predictable. Moreover, enforcing the rule has been pretty difficult and relies on everyone having the same understanding of what the rule actually prevents you from doing. That being said, this rule obviously caters more to the general public/non-clan members and new players as a sort of learning curve for dealing with squad tactics on our servers. I'm not sure if this group can be adequately represented by a poll here, so I guess just keep in mind what the repercussions of removing the rule would be with that less represented aspect of the community.
     
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  5. Dubs

    Squad Admin Event Officer Media Officer

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    I like the rule, being over competitive in public servers and constantly steam rolling one side, kills a server almost as fast as Sumari loading as next map. If the community was willing to team balance more often and not make it a chore for admins to try get more experienced people to switch sides to the less experienced side, I'd be all for the remove the first flag rush rule.
     
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  6. Floki

    Community Moderator Senior Squad Admin Squad Admin Donator

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    honestly, i'm sitting at 50 keeping the rule and 50 getting rid of it.

    When i first started playing squad i played in games where our first flag was rushed, and the enemy team had all the time in the world to cap the other flags, while our team bled out tickets trying to leave base/cap the first flag. Yes, you can argue that there are some ways they can tactically out smart the enemy and re-take the first point, if the squad leaders on the team are experienced otherwise it's GG at this point, either because we have lost so many tickets trying to take the first flag, or because new players to the game quit as they are instantly killed trying to cap the first objective especially on the smaller maps where the first cap is a stone throw away from the main spawn.

    It's so easy, if you're rushing their first cap, to sneak in with a logi, supply the fob, and start super fobbing their first cap, leaving no point in the enemy team trying to capture their first flag. Once the other squads catch up, the enemy team pretty much becomes target practice.

    Removing the rule could increase the amount of rage quit/ loss of new players, keeping the rule seems to be prevent further tactical improvement and frustration for the more experienced players.

    If the whitelisted/community server is still up? could we have it that on this server some of the rules do not apply? such as this one for example? allowing experienced players a chance to play rushing first cap (and the new daring members) but giving new members a chance on the 'public' servers?

    It's a tough call either way, and there is a lot that needs to be taken into consideration.
     
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  7. Hippy Matador

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    i feel it would slow the game down if people realised first caps were important instead of having two second cap stalemates on either side of the map which basically is the same thing.... but yeah maybe on whitelist as experiment first?
     
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  8. DaveCleasc

    Squad Admin Event Officer Donator Media Officer RS2 Vietnam Admin

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    My preference is to stop capping of ALL first flags, at least on public servers.
    My concern is the ability to effectively enforce the rule. Also, the damage inflicted to a ticket count while trying to get people to move off the point can have a massive effect on the games end result.
    So I vote to keep the rule on public servers but remove it from organised matches and the whitelist, even tho that is essentially a public server given it only requires a simple registration.

    Separate issue, but imo the whitelist should be reserved for experienced/regular players with 100+ hours, not noobs who went to the website and registered.
     
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  9. Madhouse

    Head Admin Donator

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    Steam Collector function of website does not determine hours played - although if somehow a query of the Steam API for that data was possible then we could possible hack it into the collector function.
     
  10. BANTER Shortass

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    i know we want to keep new players and all but at the end of the day the ones that play constantly are the one that keep the servers full new players will join whatever servers have players on it and i know a lot of the people who play all the time what the rules changed for some variety
     
  11. DaveCleasc

    Squad Admin Event Officer Donator Media Officer RS2 Vietnam Admin

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    I believe slowing down the round starts would be a great thing!!! As it is, we have less than 60 seconds to formulate a plan, coordinate between SL's and then issue orders to squaddies.
    And that's if you're lucky and the squads are created and filled quickly. I also see this as a big reason why the same old plan is used over and over again, there isn't time to come up with anything else and people are mostly used to the 2nd flag rush.

    I understand there would be technical restrictions, but I don't see any value in the whitelist severs current configuration. Maybe we could do a nomination and manual entry list for a whitelist version 2.0???
     
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  12. Ting

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    Is there some kind of designation in the name of the server we can use which would clearly identify one of the servers with the open ruling (for testing of gameplay).

    I disagree but mostly agree with removing it at this point. I would like to think a match where both teams have unit members this would be a good challenge, and along with it comes risk and reward.

    Judging by hours of gameplay is wrong, there are a few guys around with 20-30hrs who love the serious gameplay and are already getting involved in being great assets to the playerbase we have - and im sure many others we dont know about
     
  13. Dubs

    Squad Admin Event Officer Media Officer

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    #13 Dubs, Jan 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
    Lets be real here. Variety wont change much, if the first flag rush rules is removed. People would be techie, humvee or BTR rushing 1st flag instead of 2nd flag. The tactics would be the exact same as it is now, the games will play out 90% the same as games we currently have. The only difference would be, it makes pushing one side back to main so much easier within the first 10 minutes of a match, making that match 20 - 30 minutes of one side getting slaughtered, if the rush is successful.... And the rush will be successful if team balance is an issue, with experienced players stacking one side(Which is a common occurrence tsk tsk tsk)

    The idea of game variety and tactics variety relies on public matches actually being coordinated and the match having a somewhat balanced teams with experienced SL's, which is not a super regular thing. Its usually one team having very experienced SL's and players, while the other side has a lot less(Especially since the steam sales). The idea of rushing a first flag and having that thought that the opposing side has a counter plan ready, while having this complex play to take your first flag in return...is really just a thought and won't happen very often at all. People in public matches now, don't really plan for second flag rushes, or think of counters to prevent it happening. The only time this does happen, is if another clan is on the opposing side, to somewhat influence this style of play-- Which from the matches I spectate from the sky, is a 2/10 chance of happening. 7/10 times, its one side dominating, 1/10 times its a very close game. Clan level of competitive play can't be expected from public servers. Back in closed alpha for founders, the rule wasn't needed, as the community was mainly experienced PR or Arma players with an understanding of rushing etc. We don't have that luxury anymore currently.(disregarding closed alpha had no vehicles, rushing was still a very viable tactic, maps were that small lol)

    People can say, "other servers don't have this rule" Which is true, but you have to remember, the US and EU communities are 10x larger than ours. If one side gets dominated over and over, large amounts of people leave in rage, and another influx of people can take their spot. With us, people rage leave the server and might join one of the other populating bigD servers, or go join the oceanic servers...only difference is, we don't get that surge of players coming to fill the gaps of the rage quitters.

    I'm usually a man of few words, but I had a hard think about this one. I like the idea of removing the rule for the whitelisted community server, as people would know what they're in for. Would also give people the option of a more serious unforgiving server, and then the option of a more forgiving, not so serious server.
     
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  14. Steez

    Steez Guest

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    Thanks for the feedback guys. I have added a 4th option based on comments:

    Leave it in play and remove it on the Community Whitelist Server.

    Feel free to change your vote.
     
  15. BANTER Shortass

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    how long is this vote going for?
     
  16. Steez

    Steez Guest

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    undecided.. probably about a week realistically
     
  17. Kalashboy420

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    Get rid of it! Maybe Squads will learn to move as one through cap points instead of just ditching 1 or 2 guys there to get ruined by a convoy of humvees haha. this is war! "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!"
     
  18. Kalashboy420

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    Also open for the community server option as well, only if it were seeded more often during the day though.
     
  19. Chickhen

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    I've never seen that white-list server filled at all (correct me if I am wrong) so its completely pointless imo to have varying rule sets.

    Players go where the population is and that's fact. In spite of seeding most of the regulars choose to play with each other even if opposing, even more so if you've ever visited those Oceanic servers...the quality of players just isn't there.
     
  20. poosloth

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    Pretty much sums up my exact thoughts. I'm all about having a decent full game with players old and new. Especially with so many new players on the servers at this current point in time.

    Either way I don't mind what decision is made, as long as everyone follows those rules and plays accordingly. The previous clarification of ' no rushing first flag ' was too vague and everyone had their own interpretation of what that actually meant.
     
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