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First Cap Rush Rule (Poll & Discussion)

Discussion in 'Squad - Server Information & Feedback' started by Steez, Jan 3, 2017.

?

What should the rule be?

  1. Don't allow any flags that are directly linked to main to be rushed.

    18.4%
  2. Allow one to be rushed, but not both.

    6.1%
  3. Get rid of the rule all together and just prepare for whatever comes.

    49.0%
  4. Leave it in play and remove it on the Community Whitelist Server.

    26.5%
  1. StupidSexyFlanders

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    Chicken made a great point - there's no point having the rule removed for the whitelisted server only since nobody plays on that server anyway. Everyone just plays on whatever server has the most players on it, which is almost never the whitelisted server. If you're going to go this route then instead make a Noobs-Only server and make that server the only one with the rule.

    I really don't see why BigD should be the ONLY server with this rule. BigD has literally the best players in the world - the servers should be known for high-level gameplay. We should be encouraging these sort of tactics, not banning them. Playing on BigD should be like playing on hard mode. It should be tough. It should be a challenge. If you want to play with a bunch of noobs who want to build superfobs all game then go play on oceanic.gg servers.

    I mean what's the next step after this - banning second-cap rushes? Banning people from digging up FOBs because noobs keep putting them in obvious spots? Banning people from flanking because noobs don't check their flanks? Banning people who get more than 5 kills per match?

    Think about what type of server you want BigD to be - do you want it to be the server where the best players in the world go to play or do you want it to be a noob-fest where beginners go to **** around? The server rules need to reflect what sort of server you want BigD to be known for, and having this rule promotes BigD as a place for noobs and low-level tactics. The rule is not congruent at all for a server that wants to be known for having the best games in Squad.
     
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  2. Steez

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    I worry about you...

    The public servers need to cater for new players. Turning them away to play with the great unwashed that is oceanic.gg is a terrible idea for so many reasons.

    1. They create growth for the community, and therefore are our bread and butter. Without growth there are no servers.
    2. You will completely stunt the Australian playerbase because without new players feeling welcome on quality well administrated servers with quality players they will turn toxic and adopt bad playstyles.
    3. Players become skilled and knowledgeable through time and exposure to high level play in a setting that they can at least learn and enjoy in. Once someone isn't having fun and the environment is to difficult learning stops (teaching 101).
    So with all that said, why would we want to be in known as only providing high level play where inexperienced players will just rage quit on. That is the complete opposite of what the Squad community represents.

    Having said that, I'm an experienced player, I want tight and fast games where everyone on the server knows there **** and we can breed a server environment that fosters competite play and we as a community can be at the forefront of shaping what competitive Squad is all about.

    Thank **** we have a community whitelisted server where there is no handholding and you are expected to play hard or gtfo.. you lot just need to populate it.

    Having custom rules on the whitelist server is infact a fantastic idea because then we can shape it to be the server you want, and it actually creates the motivation needed to seed it.

    But, without beginner friendly servers there will be no community, and by extension, no full pop whitelist server
     
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  3. Dubs

    Squad Admin Event Officer Media Officer

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    Wouldn't removing the rules on the whitelist server be the same affect as the above though? Only thing is, people who want more high level play would have to seed it. The lesser experienced players have the public server to learn and gain experience from and when they feel ready to touch on a more unforgiving server, they join on in the whitelisted server.

    I don't see what other servers not having the rule has to do with anything either, as their gameplay, especially on US servers is a lot more cluster fucky and chaotic than our servers. As well as, if 15 people rage quit a US or EU server, there's 10 other servers to join, and 100+ other players to fill the gaps of rage quitters. With us, we get one side being dominated, 10 people rage quit, then another 5 rage quit, then we have this 12 v 27 type scenario. Then we get the whole "I don't want to switch teams" scenario, then the server dies out. This is quite common, especially Late night(10pm - 2am NZDT). We don't have the numbers to fill in the gaps of ragers. And if no other BigD servers are populated, they go and join Oceanic.

    It's not good for community growth.If there's a large amount of players wanting this "higher level" play, then it won't be hard to seed the whitelist server if the rule is removed for that server only, no?

    It really sounds like you're expecting E-Sports MLG style of play. The reality is; Public servers will never be able to provide that type of gameplay, unless the community as a whole is 99% experienced players -- which it is not.
     
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  4. Filthy Crab

    Community Admin Squad Admin Event Officer Donator

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    Just remember you were all new to the game once and your joining of the community is what strengthened it in the first place. Whatever happens we cannot intentionally push back new players, just something to keep in mind.
     
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  5. Mum

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    I'm sure the rule was put in for a reason in the first place. Remove it and assess how it has affected game-play, and if the same issue persists reintroduce it.
     
  6. Chickhen

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    Yeah that's the point Flanders and I are trying to make. As you highlighted the AU population for squad is tiny and therefore we are unable to seed that white-list server effectively (I know I've tried a handful of times, the best we got was around 30 or so players iirc). Simply not enough clans actively promoting their players onto that white list server and a lack of players wanting to pursue a higher level of play.

    I'd like to further add that I do not believe it is a good idea to separate veterans and noobs. If anything it is counter productive to fighting the attrition rate on players in Squad. As a personal experience I came into this game with no FPS / Milsim background whatsoever. Fortunately for me my first games were led by PANDA_V1RUS and co and that leads me to here today. The veterans and clans are in the best position to inspire players to play on BigD by showing them the way the game 'should' be played.

    Nobody is falling in love with this game when led by foolish squad leaders...cough...we know who I am talking about.
     
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  7. Filthy Crab

    Community Admin Squad Admin Event Officer Donator

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    Let's keep the thread on topic. Specifically meta of the first cap rule.
     
  8. -Gothic-

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    Im for removing the rule. The notion of offending new players is somewhat valid, but its part of the gameplay. Me, im a lateral thinker. As a 'new player' if OPfor rushes first cap and smashes us, guess what ill do next round..... "Rush it to and meet em head on". The discussion on this issue revolves around the OPfor side rushing and capping a flag close to main... I think the inclusion of BLUfor and their ability to protect/counter said tactic should also be in the mix. Its not like they have their hands tied and cannot prevent a zerg rush on first flag, its just that a lot of the time people dont.
    With the above in mind, IMHO if the rule is removed Both sides on those particular maps will learn that the dynamic of gameplay involves a potential Zerg on first flag. The onus is then on said sides to negotiate accordingly.
     
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  9. QuickSmart

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    Listening, reading, voted. My view:
    • Experienced players, no rule. = enforce it on the Whitelist server or matches
    • Inexperienced, dont cap flags linked to main = enforce it on the pub server
    I am in favour of building the community, which means training the noobs (probably because I am a certified TAFE trainer! ha :)

    But I am not in favour of 'one-trick-pony' strategies where round after round the same things happens - boring!

    Squad is designed to encourage Asymetric Warfare:


    If squad leaders and squads chose not to play the game that way, then it becomes trench warfare, winning by attrition, target practice and boring as heck.
     
  10. StupidSexyFlanders

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    So what's the deal, is this rule getting removed from all servers or not? The decision was put up to a vote and option 3 clearly won. Why did you guys even put this up to a vote if you're just going to ignore the results and do what you want to do anyway? Between this and the map rotations, it's really getting frustrating with how long it takes for decisions to be made around here and how little our opinions seem to matter.
     
  11. Dubs

    Squad Admin Event Officer Media Officer

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    There was an announcement over a week ago regarding this on BigD Discord.
    [​IMG]

    The thread also states
    "So answer the poll, discuss away in this thread and we will collate the data and finalize the rule at the next squad admin meeting."

    Feedback is noted and gives the higher ups an idea on who wants what.
     
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  12. StupidSexyFlanders

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    At the next admin meeting they decided to remove the rule for the white-list server and leave it for the rest, even though the a vote was held to determine what to do and the option to remove it entirely from all servers won by an overwhelmingly majority. I'm just not sure why the vote was held in the first place if admins were just going to do what they wanted to do anyway. I mean no further admin meetings are needed to discuss the issue, option 3 clearly won, so why not just make an announcement right now in the discord channel saying that the rule is being removed from all servers effective immediately?

    Sorry for the rant but it really is frustrating when you ask for our opinions, we provide them, and then you just disregard them anyway. In the announcement about removing the rule in the white-listed server it mentions that removing the rule for all servers is still up for discussion but there's nothing remaining to discuss. Option 3 won.
     
  13. Dubs

    Squad Admin Event Officer Media Officer

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    The rule removal is trialing on the community server to see how it plays out. As Spono stated, it's in review for public servers too. So the feedback has been noted and is taken into consideration. The final verdict is still pending.

    As a past community head/server host for ArmA & Rust communities, I realized forums are only used by a small amount of the community and server users. There's always a vocal few and a silent many. I always would look at the numbers and see how many people voting are veterans/experienced players, and then see how many are new players. Then bring it up to my staff and base the decision off of that information and taking into consideration of both sides and try catering to both, finding middle ground, by trial. I think Madhouse, Spono etc are doing the same here.

    The way I see it, the higher ups want to trial the removal of the rule, see how it plays out, then base their final verdict on that for public open servers. If final verdicts went by poll, only the vocal few are heard and it would direct the community based on a few peoples feedback; In this case, majority are experienced players who found the poll. Well, this is how I see it, Might be different. What do I know, I'm just a peasant admin, not a community lead for BigD.
     
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  14. Steez

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    Dubs is spot on really ;)

    And we haven't actually had an admin meeting yet. Senior admins met up the other day and decided on the current course, and a decision on what to do for the public servers will happen at the next official admin meeting that includes all admins, which is set for this Tuesday
     
  15. StupidSexyFlanders

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    We already explained that there is no point trialing it on the whitelisted server but admins refused to listen to us yet again. And of course we were right - at most there has been 16 players on the whitelisted server and that was only for one night. Every other day it's been completely empty. But what would we know? We're just the 'vocal few', right?

    It would be nice if admins would just listen to the community for a change instead of thinking they know better and getting things wrong over and over and over again. First the events, then the map rotations, now this.

    You guys keep asking for what we want, we tell you, and then you do something completely different because you think you know better than the majority of the community. Don't even bother asking for our opinion if you're going to do something different anyway.
     
  16. Filthy Crab

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    The rule is still being discussed by the admin team, opinions have been heard. What is the issue? The whitelist server would seed if community members/units communicated and worked together more often, it's got nothing to do with the First Cap Rule lets be honest. It doesn't take much to seed the server early in the day and talk to everyone whos on so as to efficiently seed servers.
     
  17. StupidSexyFlanders

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    How did the meeting go last night?
     
  18. Steez

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    The rule is staying in place for now, and we will continue to monitor first rush tactics on the community server before we revisit this.

    There will also be a more concentrated effort to seed the community server on certain nights by all community units.

    Additionally, the community server will see other rules removed to, like fob/rally camping and main base camping rules being removed. The idea is that this server will more Closely replicate competitive rules and allow a place to develop tactics to be used in comp.

    I hope you can see what we are trying to achieve and once the community server is regularly popped, you will change your mind on our direction.
     
  19. StupidSexyFlanders

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    Disappointing but not surprising. It would be nice if community feedback was taken into consideration for a change around here. Option 3 had twice as many votes as the next closest option. It's what everyone but the admins in charge want.
     
  20. Dubs

    Squad Admin Event Officer Media Officer

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    Let me make this clear to you. A handful of people on a poll does not equal the community as a whole. The poll was one way to gather information on who's opinion sits where and then middle ground was found which ended in a server trial. That trial is still in action and future discussion on the rule removal will be an option in the future again after some more community server testing.

    Let's not forget you were complaining about community server seeding just last week, now some more focus will be put into seeding the community server to help trialing of the rule set on that server. But you know, opinions and feedback are not taken into consideration :)
     
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